[Radix] Re: Chinese experts involved in international school safety
guideline creation???
Marla Petal
mpetal at imagins.com
Thu Jan 29 08:53:11 PST 2009
Exactly - our colleagues (much like us) never rub shoulders with these
folks. In China, at least - I think that UNICEF has good contacts in
the MoE who can really identify these people - though they are
dispersed through the provinces... -but I think that we - and INEE
could reach them through UNICEF's good offices there. Whoever wants to
give it a try I will provide contact details for chief of mission there.
What we need - is a conference for/with these facilities folks rather
than those usually rewarded with international conference travel.
Marla
On Jan 29, 2009, at 5:29 PM, Frederick Krimgold wrote:
> Dear colleagues,
> Thanks Garry for your constructive approach and range of
> engagement. I am concerned that we may not be reaching the key
> people and organizations in the sort of conferencing that has gone
> on in the past. Disaster meetings include disaster people. Inter-
> governmental meetings include inter-governmental people. We need to
> reach the people with direct authority and responsibility for school
> construction quality. We need the heads of the school building
> organizations. We need to reach the people in charge of procuring
> school buildings, the ones who pay the contractors. We need to find
> the effective points of leverage in the school building procurement
> process. Those people probably don't attend international
> conferences on disaster management or education. They probably don't
> speak English. We need to establish a network of school construction
> and facilities managers in disaster-prone poor countries. These
> people know the problems and they know the limitations of their
> context. These are the people who need to champion the cause of safe
> school construction. These are the people we, from the outside, need
> to support. The organization of school procurement, design and
> construction varies significantly around the world. However, in most
> cases, someone pays and someone builds. The one who controls the
> payment has the opportunity to control the quality. How do we reach
> the people who have the authority to reject shoddy costruction? How
> do we ensure that they have the ability to recognize shoddy
> contruction and the incentive/motivation and authority to reject it.
> Safe schools are the result of long chain of right decisions. Is it
> possible that, to date, we have missed some key links in that chain.
> Fred
>
> Dr. Frederick Krimgold
> Director
> Disaster Risk Reduction Program (DRR)
> Virginia Tech
> Advanced Research Institute (ARI)
> 4300 Wilson Blvd., Suite 750
> Arlington, VA 22203 USA
> Main: 703-528-5500
> Direct: 703-387-6033
> Fax: 703-528-5543
> Email: krimgold at vt.edu
> Web: www.ari.vt.edu/DRR
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Garry de la Pomerai wrote:
>
>> Dear colleagues,
>> Ben has included me into your conversation. Being on the periphery
>> of several initiatives for School safety, my thoughts would be the
>> softly approach, but from two/three directions.
>> One: by being inclusive of the various Chinese based specialist who
>> are active within Global or regional networks. The IDRC 09 will be
>> an excellent opportunity to meet with some face to face. I am
>> intending to to attempt to hold a session purely on school safety
>> to include global updates on initiatives and prioritisation and
>> assessments.
>> Two: would be through the continuous efforts of the UN ISDR BK
>> office and others within UNESCO and UNICEF, ISDR Geneva/Paris, with
>> whom we are collaborating on a session at the world ESD conference
>> later in March. Aimed at Governmental level discussions and
>> collaboration.
>> Third might also be though the UNCRD Centre for Regional
>> development in Japan, who are very active within the Asia Pacifc
>> Regional and have been steering their SESI pilot project for the
>> past three years in four regional countries. Fiji, Indonesia, India
>> and Uzbekistan. It is hope to extend this within the region and may
>> well be very appropriate to the Chinese as a format with some vital
>> areas of learning curves and success areas.
>> I would be affraid that if we become bullish then the doors will
>> simply shut to us, and more importantly the gates locked to those
>> from within who are able and willing to collaborate.
>> So peer inclusivity , to develop some of the policy initiatives, to
>> cover a ssessments, prioritisation's and principles of design , so
>> then we have something to present as a well thought and globally
>> collaborated approach. rather than just individuals trying to make
>> a difference,(which i admire and am not against in principle)
>> regarding the causes, i tend to agree with Ben. I was in Pakistan
>> at their School safety Conference when the earthquake happened, and
>> the NYT sent me some photos to comment on for an interview, from
>> what i saw it the methods and understanding of the rheology of
>> concrete use. wrong types of materials, too small reinforcing bars,
>> not tied in, and incorrect type of ballast used, all of which was
>> identifiable in the pictures. yes cost cutting, ignorance,poorly
>> trained workforce, material availability & speed of operation, but
>> expect ignorance is the main problem. Even with poor materials a
>> craftsman can adapt.but i saw no hint adaption.
>> regards
>> Garry
>> de la Pomerai
>>
>> "There is no competition only the need for urgency and commitment
>> to the long haul"
>>
>> COGSS-DPE (Coalition for Global School Safety-Disaster Preparedness
>> Education) to join go to: http://cogssdpe.ning.com/
>> Workgroup co-leader responsible for structural design and retrofit
>> collation
>> email: cogssinfo at aol.com
>> UN-ISDR Thematic Group for Knowledge & Education member http://www.unisdr.org/eng/p
>> artner-netw/knowledge-education/knowledge-education.htm
>>
>> email: gdp at saraid.co.uk
>> AGNDR - UK Advisory Group for Natural Disaster Reduction
>> email: gdpsaraid at aol.com
>> Tel: +44(0) 7703 337 946
>>
>> "Disaster Prevention for Schools: Guidance for Education Sector
>> Decision-Makers" published by the ISDR
>> http://www.preventionweb.net/english/professional/trainings-events/edu-materials/v.php?id=7344
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bwisner at igc.org
>> To: George Kent <kent at hawaii.edu>; Frederick Krimgold <krimgold at vt.edu
>> >
>> CC: bwisner at igc.org; Cannon Terry <t.g.cannon at greenwich.ac.uk>;
>> Marla Petal <mpetal at imagins.com>; radix at ecie.org
>> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:36
>> Subject: Chinese experts involved in international school safety
>> guideline creation???
>>
>> Good idea about conference or workshop with Chinese participation.
>> In fact, a technical expert group exists that is supporting an
>> initiative by SPHERE, World Bank's Global Fund for DRR, and the
>> International Network on Emergency Education (INEE) to develop
>> guidelines for school safety (broader than just seismic safety).
>> They will be meeting face to face for the first time in March. I
>> don't know if there are Chinese experts involved, but I will try to
>> find out and encourage their inclusion.
>>
>> Cheers, BEN
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: George Kent
>> Sent: Jan 28, 2009 9:42 PM
>> To: Frederick Krimgold
>> Cc: bwisner at igc.org, Cannon Terry , Marla Petal , radix at ecie.org
>> Subject: Re: [Radix] Re: Radix Digest, Vol 105, Issue 1
>>
>> Fred, sure it would be good to have an effective building quality
>> control system. The question is, what kind? What would meet all the
>> requirements, including political acceptability?
>>
>> Any approach that would get their people into a sustained
>> conversation about this question would be a good way to get
>> started. A bad way would be to have outsiders formulate some pet
>> idea and then try to push it on them. The local experts need to be
>> active participants in shaping the remedies.
>>
>> Can someone find funding to organize a small conference on quality
>> control for school building architecture? Then maybe some Chinese
>> could be invited into the planning committee. And maybe the
>> conference itself could end up somewhere in China, maybe Sichuan?
>>
>> Aloha, George
>>
>>
>> On Jan 28, 2009, at 3:12 PM, Frederick Krimgold wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Safe Schoolers,
>>> On the constructive side, would it not make good sense to support
>>> development of an effective building regulatory/quality contro l
>>> system. Building regulation is the core of the developed world
>>> approach to earthquake mitigation. Would it not be reasonable to
>>> focus on a form of regulation that might function for the benefit
>>> of the people in a place like Szechuan? Free market ideology and
>>> deregulation have been an obstacle to serious thinking about
>>> creative, appropriate, competent, honest regulatory systems. They
>>> may be local. They may represent the population's right to safety.
>>> Fred
>>> Dr. Frederick Krimgold
>>> Director
>>> Disaster Risk Reduction Program (DRR)
>>> Virginia Tech
>>> Advanced Research Institute (ARI)
>>> 4300 Wilson Blvd., Suite 750
>>> Arlington, VA 22203 USA
>>> Main: 703-528-5500
>>> Direct: 703-387-6033
>>> Fax: 703-528-5543
>>> Email: krimgold at vt.edu
>>> Web: www.ari.vt.edu/DRR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 28, 2009, at 6:17 PM, George Kent wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree that the causes of the school structure failures probably
>>>> were mixed, and not entirely knowable to us. However, we
>>>> shouldn't be too preoccupied with identifying causes. Some
>>>> remedies, such as increasing transparency and the rights-based
>>>> approach, are sensible regardless of what the details of
>>>> causation might have been. Unlike prosecutors who need to know
>>>> the history in detail, I think our work needs to be more forward-
>>>> looking.
>>>>
>>>> Aloha, George
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 28, 2009, at 1:08 PM, bwisner at igc.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Fred, Marla, George and Terry,
>>>>>
>>>>> Having been in=2 0Sichuan in November and talked about the
>>>>> school problem extensively with many Chinese experts (engineers,
>>>>> geographers, journalists, social workers), I am convinced that
>>>>> the situation is very complex and the causes mixed. There may
>>>>> well have been some cost cutting in come cases. However, I
>>>>> think some of the poor construction was due to the extreme speed
>>>>> with which schools have been built over the past decade or so,
>>>>> ironically in compliance with a national policy of providing
>>>>> more infrastructure and investment in the western and
>>>>> northwestern parts of the country that have not benefited from
>>>>> the the bonanza of export oriented growth as the coastal zones
>>>>> have. When I was in Bejiing in 2005 the central government had
>>>>> just announced a lifting of school fees in the West of China,
>>>>> another part of the of the policy to redress spatial
>>>>> inequalities that have grown as a result of economic
>>>>> globalization.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be very reluctant to attribute the tragedy to any one
>>>>> cause (e.g. "corruption" or "authoritarianism") as blanket terms.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>
>>>>> BEN
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Frederick Krimgold
>>>>> Sent: Jan 28, 2009 1:32 PM
>>>>> To: Marla Petal
>>>>> Cc: radix at ecie.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Radix] Re: Radix Digest, Vol 105, Issue 1
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Marla,
>>>>> I applaud you passionate comment on the failure of school
>>>>> consttuction in Szechuan. However, "shoddy" construction can
>>>>> result from ignorance, incompetence, poor judgement and/or
>>>>> corruption. Terry seems to lay it all to corruption of an
>>>>> authoritarian system. Is that what the courageous journalists
>>>>> found to be the case? Was the shoddy construction the result of
>>>>> criminal intent? Was material stolen or adulterated, knowingly?
>>>>> Was there and inspection system that was corrupted?
>>>>> In cases that I am familiar with, the problem is often ignorance
>>>>> or poverty as much as corruption. Poor design, poor construction
>>>>> and poor materials are often the consequence of ignorance and
>>>>> poverty rather than criminal intent. i feel that it is our job
>>>>> to attack the ignorance and poverty as well as the corruption.
>>>>> Public support and active involvement in safety and regulation
>>>>> of construction is a force that needs to be mobilized in
>>>>> parallel with more formal regulatory approaches.
>>>>> 0A
>>>>> Dr. Frederick Krimgold
>>>>> Director
>>>>> Disaster Risk Reduction Program (DRR)
>>>>> Virginia Tech
>>>>> Advanced Research Institute (ARI)
>>>>> 4300 Wilson Blvd., Suite 750
>>>>> Arlington, VA 22203 USA
>>>>> Main: 703-528-5500
>>>>> Direct: 703-387-6033
>>>>> Fax: 703-528-5543
>>>>> Email: krimgold at vt.edu
>>>>> Web: www.ari.vt.edu/DRR
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 28, 2009, at 11:30 AM, Marla Petal wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Terry - Thank you so much for bringing up a painful and
>>>>>> important issue. On the one hand I share your pessimism. On the
>>>>>> other hand I think that even the most authoritarian regimes
>>>>>> respond to pressure from their populations (witness significant
>>>>>> progress in school saf ety in Uzbekistan). So it seems to me
>>>>>> that it is our ethical obligation to find ways to express our
>>>>>> solidarity with the grassroots efforts to contribute to
>>>>>> disaster prevention. Surely we cannot be of real professional
>>>>>> or expert support if we use the guise of diplomacy to justify
>>>>>> total silence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first time this hit me between the eyes was at IDRC in
>>>>>> Davos this past year is when the Sichuan earthquake experience
>>>>>> was being reviewed. Amidst a good deal of congratulatory
>>>>>> remarks about the earthquake response, there was NO MENTION of
>>>>>> the terrible toll taken by shoddy school construction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It wasn't until the last day of the conf. in a special session,
>>>>>> with only 100 people left, that our Chinese colleagues and
>>>>>> others finally took the stage. One of the presenters had a
>>>>>> couple of slides of disinformation on school impacts which he
>>>>>> hurried through with obvious embarrassment (one hopes because
>>>>>> of the transparent lies they contained).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could well understand the horrible quandry and vulnerability
>>>>>> of our Chinese colleagues, and had no desire to put them on the
>>>>>> spot. But I was livid with the rest of our colleagues for
>>>>>> completely failing to raise questions or make any kind of
>>>>>> diplomatically worded or even condolence statement of any
>>>>>> kind. Their total silence struck me as either total
>>>>>> indifference or crass livelihood protection. The silence of our
>>>>>> "professional" and "expert" colleagues in the face of blatant
>>>>>> disinformation, the collusion with the re-writing of history by
>>>>>> the authorities strikes me as a betrayal of all of the bereaved
>>>>>> parents and their dead children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that Walter Hays and myself were the only ones to break
>>>>>> the silence. Both of us, independently, did exactly as you
>>>>>> suggest - we tried to put our shame into a collective and
>>>>>> universal context of failure to prevent disaster. We said that
>>>>>> this has happened and will happen elsewhere. (It isn't hard
>>>>>> coming from the U.S. to cite our failures in Katrina or to
>>>>>> refer to the worst earthquake - the one yet to come in
>>>>>> California). And we tried in some modest way to value truth-
>>>>>> telling a pre-requisite for involving communities in the hard
>>>>>> tasks that they must take on (like monitoring school
>>>>>> construction). (While in China, I also tried to invoke their
>>>>>> own historic strengths to suggest that bereaved parents could
>>>>>> be engaged as "barefoot architects and engineers" becoming
>>>>>> partners in monitoring school construction practices -
>>>>>> providing an opportunity to turn anger and grief into a
>>>>>> commitment to the next generation.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed we do need people to live and fight another day - and we
>>>>>> do need some of us to remain persona grata and to visit China.
>>>>>> And when we get there we need to meet parents and school
>>>>>> principles and support their advocacy efforts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to suggest, that in s ome kind of 'diplomatic' and
>>>>>> subtle means of redress that we collectively nominate and
>>>>>> campaign for School Principle Ye Zhiping to be given the
>>>>>> Sasakawa Award next year. In addition to validating his
>>>>>> courageous leadership and the importance of school safety, it
>>>>>> would also validate the tremendous service done by just a
>>>>>> couple of courageous journalists who took great risks to
>>>>>> uncover the truth, even while bulldozers were fast at work to
>>>>>> plow it under.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So as a result of this posting, I may never be granted a visa
>>>>>> to visit China again. Hopefully someone else who goes will
>>>>>> convey our collective condolences to parents and assure them of
>>>>>> our solidarity in making sure that every new school is a safe
>>>>>> school
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Marla
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2009, at 9:00 PM, radix-request at ecie.org wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Send Radix mailing list submissions to
>>>>>>> radix at ecie.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>>>> http://ecie.org/mailman/listi nfo/radix
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>>>>>>> radix-request at ecie.org
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>>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Radix digest..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Follow up & thanks on China disaster meeting
>>>>>>> (T.G.Cannon at greenwich.ac.uk)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:29:43 +0000
>>>>>>> From: T.G.Cannon at greenwich.ac.uk
>>>>>>> Subject: [Radix] Follow up & thanks on China disaster meeting
>>>>>>> To: radix at ecie.org
>>>>>>> Cc: terrycannon at blueyonder.co.uk
>>>>>>> Message-ID: <20090127152943.a2ufkztu28swgwgw at skye.gre.ac.uk>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
>>>>>>> format="flowed"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear RADIXers
>>>>>>> This letter is main ly for those who responded to my call for
>>>>>>> advice on
>>>>>>> how to deal with the presentation I gave last week on the
>>>>>>> Chinese
>>>>>>> earthquake. The meeting was co-hosted by Fondation Madariaga
>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>> Chinese embassy to the European Union, and the Chinese
>>>>>>> ambassador was
>>>>>>> there along with many other officials. Two Chinese disaster
>>>>>>> specialist
>>>>>>> also spoke. You can see the programme and presentations at:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.madariaga.org/events/events-2008/46-2008/159-chinas-ability-to-cope-with-natural-disaster
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and see my Powerpoint.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because the issues are of general interest to RADIX, I am
>>>>>>> sharing
>>>>>>> these thoughts, but I do especially want to thank Ben Wisner,
>>>>>>> George
>>>>>>> Kent, Terry Jeggle, James Lewis and John Wiener for their
>>>>>>> substantial
>>>>>>> messages to me. (Apologies for not responding individually to
>>>>>>> you, and
>>>>>>> I hope I have not left anyone out).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It really helped to have your thoughts, though I think it
>>>>>>> would open
>>>>>>> up a very good if we were to discuss on RADIX the issue of how
>>>>>>> we deal
>>>>>>> with our approach to governments that have significant
>>>>>>> authoritarian
>>>>>>> tendencies. That is why I am sending my response to the list:
>>>>>>> this is
>>>>>>> a very general issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While I came to the view (as a result of most of the comments
>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>> above) for this meeting that I should be ‘diplomatic9 and
>>>>>>> "engage"
>>>>>>> with the officials in Brussels, and that the approach should
>>>>>>> be one of
>>>>>>> supporting reform and reformers, I still have very serious
>>>>>>> doubts
>>>>>>> about whether that will actually have an effect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I realise that part of the problem with the Chinese regime is
>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>> does not respond to external pressure, seeing it (in a
>>>>>>> parallel way to
>>>>>>> Mugabe and some South African ANC ministers) as imperialist
>>>>>>> attacks.
>>>>>>> So how should outsiders comment on Chinese repression?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my approaches at the meeting was to make it quite clear
>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>> am not criticising China in isolation from critical comments
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> could be made about many other countries. I started by talking
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> Hurricane Katrina as an example of bad government, and when I
>>>>>>> spoke of
>>>>>>> corruption (re schools that were not constructed properly) I
>>>>>>> emphasised that this has to be seen in much a wider context.
>>>>>>> For this
>>>>>>> I mentioned the recent global financial crisis as a product of
>>>>>>> (in
>>>>>>> effect) corrupt behaviour in western banks, the British
>>>>>>> Aerospace
>>>>>>> corruption (linked to the UK government) over arms sales, and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Common Agricultural Policy as an example of a policy designed
>>>>>>> to deny
>>>>>>> development to the poor and support the already rich –
>>>>>>> institutional
>>>>>>> corruption if you like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I mentioned rights, and the essential need for civil
>>>>>>> society to
>>>>>>> be enabled in r elation to community-based disaster
>>>>>>> preparedness, I
>>>>>>> emphasised that this was in order to allow citizens to HELP the
>>>>>>> government to ensure that the government fulfils its remit of
>>>>>>> protecting its own citizens. Civil society can therefore be
>>>>>>> part of
>>>>>>> the process by which government achieves its goals against
>>>>>>> corruption
>>>>>>> at lower levels, rather than a threat to government.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All this came after a rather positive account of the emergency
>>>>>>> response effort of the Chinese government (AND ordinary
>>>>>>> people), so
>>>>>>> that it was in context.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don’t share the optimism of most of my advisors that
>>>>>>> engagement is
>>>>>>> the best (or only) route. While many Chinese may themselves be
>>>>>>> uncomfortable about repression (including that related to the
>>>>>>> earthquake and other disasters), what has engagement achieved
>>>>>>> over the
>>>>>>> past two decades? See below on the Olympics; the doctor who
>>>>>>> blew the
>>>>>>> whistle on SARS has regularly been placed under house arrest
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>> June 4 each year in case she makes some other kind of protest.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The bereaved parents who started a law case against local
>>>>>>> governments
>>>>>>> that oversaw school construction have had their case
>>>>>>> dismissed. The
>>>>>>> human rights lawyer Huang Qi who acted for some parents to
>>>>>>> make other
>>>>>>> claims was imprisoned last May, and is still in prison,
>>>>>>> accused of
>>>>>>> betraying state secrets (a catch all and indefensible
>>>>>>> accusation). He
>>>>>>> is seriously ill, and has been offered release only if he
>>>>>>> gives up his
>>>>>>> human rights activities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Relating to the Olympics, the government had agreed to
>>>>>>> improve its
>>>>>>> reputation to allow civil society activities during the Games.
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> designated four areas in Beijing parks for people to hold
>>>>>>> demonstrations – for which they had to make an application. As
>>>>>>> far as
>>>>>>> I know, none were ever permitted. Two women in their 70s who
>>>>>>> applied
>>>>>>> to hold a protest about the demolition of their homes were
>>>>>>> arrested
>>>>>>> and held without charge. Others were harassed.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of my advisors argued that I should not make links
>>>>>>> between the
>>>>>>> collapse of schools and corruption and repression with other
>>>>>>> recent
>>>>>>> issues (toxic baby-milk, Amur river chemical discharge, SARS,
>>>>>>> AIDs
>>>>>>> scandals
>>>>>>> ). I understand that this approach would have made it
>>>>>>> difficult or impossible to make a supportive engagement to
>>>>>>> “work with
>>>>>>> reformers” in the system who also share these doubts. BUT the
>>>>>>> issues
>>>>>>> are all linked by the type of power that is operating in
>>>>>>> China, and I
>>>>>>> cannot see how we can avoid analysing and criticising this
>>>>>>> form of
>>>>>>> power and how it links to disasters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given that part of our role (our duty) in RADIX is to make such
>>>>>>> analysis, how should we then relate it to action (and words)
>>>>>>> to make
>>>>>>> the analysis have an effect? This for me is the ke y missing
>>>>>>> link, and
>>>>>>> I am not convinced that “engagement” is an effective
>>>>>>> translation of
>>>>>>> our analysis into action.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So this is where we need a debate on RADIX at least, to fathom
>>>>>>> out how
>>>>>>> we should do this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not against the idea of engagement if it can be shown
>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>> works, and that it is preferable to making loud critical
>>>>>>> remarks (in
>>>>>>> order to achieve reduced vulnerability). But I am far from
>>>>>>> convinced.
>>>>>>> Engagement and support to reform and reformers is very similar
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> position of the British (and other western)government on
>>>>>>> countries
>>>>>>> like China, and in my view it is in danger of becoming a cop-
>>>>>>> out. Is
>>>>>>> there a RADIXal version of engagement?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the end, the Ambassador commented that he enjoyed my
>>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>>> very much!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> best wishes
>>>>>>> Terry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> University of Greenwich, a charity and company limited by
>>>>>>> guarantee,
>>>>>>> registered in England (reg. no. 986729). Registered office:
>>>>>>> Old Royal Naval College, Park Row, Greenwich, London SE10 9LS.
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> This mailing list is provided by ECIE.ORG for RADIX
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>>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe:
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>>>>>>> Radix - Radical Interpretations of Disaster:
>>>>>>> http://www.radixonline.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> End of Radix Digest, Vol 105, Issue 1
>>>>>>> *************************************
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marla Petal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mpetal at imagins.com
>>>>>> Home +41 22 740 2704
>>>>>> Mobile +41 76 240 8474
>>>>>> Skype: shmarla
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> This mailing list is provided by ECIE.ORG for RADIX
>>>>>> To post a message, send it to: radix at ecie.org
>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
>>>>>> http://ecie.org/mailman/listinfo/radix
>>>>>> See more information about ECIE: http://www.ecie.org/
>>>>>> Radix - Radical Interpretations of Disaster:
>>>>>> http://www.radixonline.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> This mailing list is provided by ECIE.ORG for RADIX
>>>>> To post a message, send it to: radix at ecie.org
>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
>>>>> http://ecie.org/mailman/listinfo/radix
>>>>> See more information about ECIE: http://www.ecie.org/
>>>>> Radix - Radical Interpretations of Disaster:
>>>>> http://www.radixonline.org/
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
Marla Petal
mpetal at imagins.com
Home +41 22 740 2704
Mobile +41 76 240 8474
Skype: shmarla
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